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TOPIC: Misc Newbie questions and Ideas

Misc Newbie questions and Ideas 3 years 7 months ago #2011

  • codetrance
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Hey all-

I haven't played a miniatures game since the days of Necromunda, so I'm very out of touch, and please take any comments with a grain of salt. This game looks really neat, and I thought it would be fun to introduce my kids to something non-electronic! The tone is not overly violent (comparatively), and I like the flexibility built into the rule set. I really like your figs, and thought to build a wasteland village (relying heavily on Pardulon's scenery) to get started.

I've read through the rules a couple of times and to be honest- found them somewhat confusing. So much time is spent on details and nuances meant to improve the RPG elements that I lost focus on the main rules. For example- On my first read-through, I swear I ran into a blurb that suggested a starting amount of RU to create one's first crew, but for the life of me I can't find it again, even though I've looked throught several times. For a newbie player, something like this is a barrier to entry as we don't know where to start if we don't have a veteran narrator to guide us.

Another thing I've observed Is that frequently the rules are presented such that you wont't really know what something means until you've read further along in the book. It would be nice to have the rules presented in a more linear fashion that relates to actual gameplay (vs role playing), with the most important elements highlighted, and reiterated as you pass through the 'fluff' stuff. I don't think it hurts to provide more examples, and repeat important concepts throughout. I feel like I was getting the important rules in a really piecemeal fashion, and it took a lot of work to get to the meat of things...?

Overall it looks like a great game and I love the flexibility- I'd be interested to learn how players are adapting the rules to fit their own games. I'm a zombie fan for example, and a couple of scenarios I've been thinking about incorporating are rad-ghouls (ala Fallout, and I think I saw this mentioned somewhere i the forums)... or possibly a scenario where there is a viral-trank rifle that can recovered with darts that have zombie toxin. It doesn't kill characters, but infects them such that if they are killed later, they turn zombie.. :)

Also wondered about vehicle rules. Characters can be rewarded with vehicles when exploring post encounter, but I didn't note any details on how they come into play. Similarly, Communities are mentioned as important, but there really aren't many rules to manage them.

Lastly- Renown seems like it has an important influence on the game, but there should be some deeper guidelines on how to reward folks- or perhaps remove it, because it seems problematic?

Again, take anything I say lightly please, still trying to sort out the game. I would like to know what you recommend as starting points for creating our first crews however-

thanks kindly-
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Misc Newbie questions and Ideas 3 years 7 months ago #2012

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Thanks for the great comments, and constructive criticisms.
codetrance wrote:
Hey all-
I've read through the rules a couple of times and to be honest- found them somewhat confusing. So much time is spent on details and nuances meant to improve the RPG elements that I lost focus on the main rules. For example- On my first read-through, I swear I ran into a blurb that suggested a starting amount of RU to create one's first crew, but for the life of me I can't find it again, even though I've looked throught several times. For a newbie player, something like this is a barrier to entry as we don't know where to start if we don't have a veteran narrator to guide us.


I would have loved to include a plethora of examples, and had a bunch of them written, but things started getting shifted around to try to make more sense of the order, and then the examples made no sense anymore... Weaver (the Character who we describe when we talk about stats) had an entire adventure through the town of Tenpike, but it ended up getting cut as things began shifting to try to create a better flow for the rules as a whole.

I'd really love to hear your suggestions on how to make things more understandable and simplified though, but we will have to skirt the element of maintaining the RPG content and making a stripped down RPG game. I realize that it's probably a lofty goal, but not one that we're willing to give up on.

In terms of RUs, 100 is a good starting point, but you can honestly use whatever feels "right" to you. If you want to do an escalation campaign, 50 might be a better starting point, but it's really your call. Maybe I can add an addendum that includes some stuff like that at the end?

codetrance wrote:
Another thing I've observed Is that frequently the rules are presented such that you wont't really know what something means until you've read further along in the book. It would be nice to have the rules presented in a more linear fashion that relates to actual gameplay (vs role playing), with the most important elements highlighted, and reiterated as you pass through the 'fluff' stuff. I don't think it hurts to provide more examples, and repeat important concepts throughout. I feel like I was getting the important rules in a really piecemeal fashion, and it took a lot of work to get to the meat of things...?

one thing that I totally spaced out on was the glossary of terms that was meant to be inserted towards the front of the book. That has (or would have) a sentence or two about what all the basic game terms are. Again, I would have loved to have gotten the examples back in there, but time was ultimately too short (even though it was over two years in the making). I will definitely do a revision at some point this year, to make these points clearer.
codetrance wrote:
Overall it looks like a great game and I love the flexibility- I'd be interested to learn how players are adapting the rules to fit their own games. I'm a zombie fan for example, and a couple of scenarios I've been thinking about incorporating are rad-ghouls (ala Fallout, and I think I saw this mentioned somewhere i the forums)... or possibly a scenario where there is a viral-trank rifle that can recovered with darts that have zombie toxin. It doesn't kill characters, but infects them such that if they are killed later, they turn zombie.. :)

I'd really appreciate if you post up the sorts of things that you come up with on the forums here and get that started! We are probably going to be running a "best of" encounter and adventure writing contest at some point soon (maybe even before april).
codetrance wrote:
Also wondered about vehicle rules. Characters can be rewarded with vehicles when exploring post encounter, but I didn't note any details on how they come into play. Similarly, Communities are mentioned as important, but there really aren't many rules to manage them.

There are basic concepts for vehicle rules, but they still need to be playtested extensively, along with squad mechanics. On the outside, those will be in the expansion that features more info on the two corporate forces and the two major cults.

codetrance wrote:
Lastly- Renown seems like it has an important influence on the game, but there should be some deeper guidelines on how to reward folks- or perhaps remove it, because it seems problematic?

In the narrator section, check page 182 and 183 for ideas on how to reward Renown.
codetrance wrote:
Again, take anything I say lightly please, still trying to sort out the game. I would like to know what you recommend as starting points for creating our first crews however-

thanks kindly-

I really appreciate the comments, and I don't take it lightly... the game I mean. I am pretty thick-skinned about things, and if there are things that can be done to make something read or play better, I always want to hear about them.
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Misc Newbie questions and Ideas 3 years 7 months ago #2014

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Thanks so much for the detailed response, and I apologize if a lot of my comments are generalizations! I'll try and get some more concrete feedback on here the next time. And certainly post encounter ideas too... :)

I also didn't mean to imply all the RPG content was a bad thing, I'm all for it. Maybe part of my problem is I've been reading the PDF on an ipad, which makes it harder to flip thru and find details. Will have to have this mighty tome printed out- then I'll have a better sense of it.

Thanks again-
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Misc Newbie questions and Ideas 3 years 7 months ago #2018

  • Anton
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codetrance wrote:
Thanks so much for the detailed response, and I apologize if a lot of my comments are generalizations! I'll try and get some more concrete feedback on here the next time. And certainly post encounter ideas too... :)

I also didn't mean to imply all the RPG content was a bad thing, I'm all for it. Maybe part of my problem is I've been reading the PDF on an ipad, which makes it harder to flip thru and find details. Will have to have this mighty tome printed out- then I'll have a better sense of it.

Thanks again-

Generalizations are totally fine! Keep in mind that this is something that I've been working on for two years, so not only do I have a lot of time invested in knowing the rules, but that also means that I may be so deep into it, that I cant' see the forest for the trees.

If you have any questions about how things work (or seem to not work), encounters, etc, I'm always glad to answer them.
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Misc Newbie questions and Ideas 3 years 7 months ago #2020

  • msears
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These were great questions. And the book has been out a week no such thing as a 'newbie' haha
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Misc Newbie questions and Ideas 3 years 6 months ago #2024

  • Anton
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I finished this up the other day. Might be helpful.
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Misc Newbie questions and Ideas 2 years 10 months ago #2697

  • ferk
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I have to agree with you on the difficulty in finding the linear in some basic concepts. Here is an example of how I would make it more consumable for anyone and all.
The thing I had a difficult time with was 'attacking an opponent'.
starting on page 79, A reader has to work his way all the way through, malfunctions, numerous attackers, backing out, counterattacks etc to figure out that after you arrack some one using your fight attribute, you then move to a next phase of using the power attribute and opposed power attribute to do the actual damage. on page 85. and even then it never specifies that all you need is one fighting attribute dice role to beat the TN of 4 to 'get in there' with the weapon. I assumed at first that the number of TN fighting successes somehow translated to that the power/damage stage.
Here's what I would do. (Since you asked..! :P )
Fighting attribute determines a character's ability with his weapon. A trained killer can wound with a pencil while an drugged out tweakier can barely scratch you with a chainsaw. Once they hit, its the power of the weapon, and the brute force behind it that makes it deadly. Role your fighting attribute. Hit the TN of 4 plus,( modified by cover, etc) go to the next stage. Role your power number and let your opponent oppose it with his. (modified by armor, traits etc). The number of your power roles that beat his are the numbers of damage you've done to him.check the chart to see what happens. Now, there are other rules that apply tho fighting like malfunctions, numerous attackers etc etc. ...
To me, someone who doesn't play mini games often, I just want dot know, "so what happens when I walk up to someone and try to hit them on the head?" this was difficult to figure out and I did lose my train of thought more times then seemed needed.
All history is but a prelude to the dawn
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Misc Newbie questions and Ideas 2 years 4 months ago #2741

  • Anton
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ferk wrote:
I have to agree with you on the difficulty in finding the linear in some basic concepts. Here is an example of how I would make it more consumable for anyone and all.
The thing I had a difficult time with was 'attacking an opponent'.
starting on page 79, A reader has to work his way all the way through, malfunctions, numerous attackers, backing out, counterattacks etc to figure out that after you arrack some one using your fight attribute, you then move to a next phase of using the power attribute and opposed power attribute to do the actual damage. on page 85. and even then it never specifies that all you need is one fighting attribute dice role to beat the TN of 4 to 'get in there' with the weapon. I assumed at first that the number of TN fighting successes somehow translated to that the power/damage stage.
Here's what I would do. (Since you asked..! :P )
Fighting attribute determines a character's ability with his weapon. A trained killer can wound with a pencil while an drugged out tweakier can barely scratch you with a chainsaw. Once they hit, its the power of the weapon, and the brute force behind it that makes it deadly. Role your fighting attribute. Hit the TN of 4 plus,( modified by cover, etc) go to the next stage. Role your power number and let your opponent oppose it with his. (modified by armor, traits etc). The number of your power roles that beat his are the numbers of damage you've done to him.check the chart to see what happens. Now, there are other rules that apply tho fighting like malfunctions, numerous attackers etc etc. ...
To me, someone who doesn't play mini games often, I just want dot know, "so what happens when I walk up to someone and try to hit them on the head?" this was difficult to figure out and I did lose my train of thought more times then seemed needed.

Sorry, missed this post!

A character with a Fighting of 1 still has a 50/50 chance of hitting, assuming no modifiers. I'll have the new version of the quickstart guide up here after this weekend, so hopefully that will help clarify some of that basic stuff that might be a bit dense in the book.
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